S5 E6: Featuring Kelvin Abrams

00:00:00 Tracie Edwards: All right, three, two, one, go. Hello everyone and welcome to Traceability Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Tracy Edwards, and today it is my pleasure to have Mr. Kelvin Abrams uh on the line with me today. Kelvin is a seasoned entrepreneur, a dynamic leader, and the author of Get Uncomfortable or Change Course, a candid and practical guide for business owners navigating the ever evolving landscape of entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship. He's had four successful u business ventures. He's no stranger to the grit, innovation, and adaptability required to grow and sustain a business. Kelvin is driven by the philosophy that there are miles to go before I sleep. And he approaches each day as an opportunity to imagine, build, and evolve. His superpowers are creativity, resilience, and the ability to pivot. And this has helped him fuel a career centered on turning big visions into tangible results. Kelvin is a passionate mentor and advocate for the next generation of business leaders. His mantra is learn, earn, and return. And he regularly shares his experiences to uplift others. 00:01:26 Tracie Edwards: Kelvin, thank you so much for being with me today. Kelvin Abrams: Thanks for having me, Dr. Edwards. Tracie Edwards: Well, it's a it's a pleasure to dive into this with you. We were chatting beforehand and uh most of my listeners are people in the technology uh professions who are really interested in change and what change looks like and how they can uh change and level up in your in their careers. And I think uh approaching careers from a perspective of entrepreneurship um is uh is super helpful. And so I I u am really grateful to have a a seasoned veteran of entrepreneurship with me today. Kelvin Abrams: Well, thank you very much for the compliment. I appreciate that. Tracie Edwards: So diving right in uh let's talk about uh the power of discomfort. So you have written a book it's called get uncomfortable or change course. Uh what does getting uncomfortable mean to you and why is it critical for people in their careers? Kelvin Abrams: Uh that's a great question. Um so get uncomfortable to me basically means stepping out your comfort zone. 00:02:46 Kelvin Abrams: Um and that would be for anyone trying to change career fields or anyone trying to start a new business is in order to succeed in life. My my belief humbly is that you're going to have to get uncomfortable. Um that's the only way you're going to succeed in life. You know, uncomfortable could mean a bunch of things like failure. It could mean um facing your anxieties, facing your fears. Um but just getting uncomfortable in general just means that that's how you're going to grow. Um and then the second part of that book uh it the title is or change course. And what that means is getting uncomfortable is not for everybody. meaning starting a new career, leaving one career, starting a venture that you have no idea if it's going to be successful or not is not for everybody. And that's where the portion is change course. In other words, go back to your nineto-5. Um, and Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: I truly believe that and I humbly believe that entrepreneurs are born. 00:03:40 Kelvin Abrams: I don't think you can really make an entrepreneur. Although there are a lot of people out there that have successfully become entrepreneurs, but I just firmly believe it takes the grit and guts and tenacity that you're just born with it to be an entrepreneur. Tracie Edwards: Was there a defining moment for you that made you realize that uh I am an entrepreneur and discomfort is where it's at? And uh did how did you uh identify that and um get comfortable Kelvin Abrams: Oh, this is something I knew since a little child. I mean, as a little kid, uh, my father has always been self-employed since I I've known, you know, or since I've been able to recall, u, my father has always been self-employed in the computer industry. Um, but I can remember as a child, you know, six, eight years old, selling candy out of my window to friends. Um, we would walk to the candy store and get a back then candy was cheap, so you can get a bag of candy for like two bucks. And then Tracie Edwards: Mhm. 00:04:42 Kelvin Abrams: we would go ahead and just sell candy to the neighborhood. And then graduating into high school, you know, we would sell soda, potato chips, and things like that. So, I kind of always knew I was an entrepreneur and always felt that in me. Um, and then of course, you know, life gets in the way, you know, so college and then a professional career. Um and then um I really um revisited the uh avenue of being an entrepreneur when I lost my dog Tikki. Um I had a blue wymer runner, Tiki, and I was working in government at the time. And you know, I just wasn't happy with my career. And um years later, I had started working on the doggy daycare plan while I was at Ruckers University in New Jersey. But you know, life gets in the way like I said, and you know, I just kind of put it to the side. and the loss of my dog, I really took it hard and Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that was the name of my first business is Tiki's Playhouse. 00:05:33 Kelvin Abrams: I wanted to remember my dog and I wanted to, you know, put all my efforts into it because that was the very first dog that I lost. Um, and I took it kind of hard. So, I guess to really answer your question, Dr. Edwards, I I've known all my life that I've been an entrepreneur, but I really didn't act upon it until something emotionally really hit me hard, and that was the loss of my dog. Tracie Edwards: And that makes sense. Sometimes I think we need a trigger to kind of uh jumpst start us and and get us thinking a a little bit differently. Um, personally, uh, it has been, you know, a challenge when I've been in a corporate role and and, uh, things are going well and you've got all the stuff that you need and and, uh, you got the life going and then as you say, something triggers triggers that and and gets you thinking more. So, uh, I I can completely relate to that. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. I mean, but it's scary leaving a stable career. 00:06:34 Kelvin Abrams: I mean, I was very scared and nervous. Um, but the thing is is I just knew I had something inside me that would not allow me to fail. Um, and again, that's where I sit back and I humbly say that entrepreneurs are born. Um, just Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: because, you know, I've been taking risks all my life. Um, I've failed all my life. Um, you know, I failed in sports. Um, you know, I I've, you know, missed a catch in a baseball game. Um, I've missed a goal in a soccer. I mean, you name it. I failed classes in high school. I failed classes in college, you know. So, I've been failing my entire life. So, failure to me, I'm not afraid of failure. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: I'm more afraid of not trying versus failing. And that's what I always tell people is, you know, when my day comes and I get to meet the good maker, good lord, you know, I I want the good Lord to say to me, "Hey, man, congratulations. You 00:07:21 Kelvin Abrams: know, well done." Versus the good Lord asking me, "Hey man, how come you didn't take advantage of this life that I gave you?" Um, and so, you know, I look at it that way is that, you know, I have nothing to fear. And failure is not fear to me at all. Tracie Edwards: Well, I I appreciate that. Um, it it was in your background a little bit. you know, you saw this in your father and um you had probably sort of learned from his experience um to to be comfortable with that fear. I I think it's important um you know when when the fear uh kind of nips at us that we sort of channel that and and sort of go forward through that. And um I have that same bias for action I I guess is what I call it. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. I mean, you can look at any successful athlete out there, any successful movie star that's out there, um, any successful idol that you have, whether it be a singer or, you know, or what have you, a musician, you know, they're all going to tell you about failures. 00:08:22 Kelvin Abrams: They're all going to tell you about the many, many, many times that they failed, but it was their resilience that allowed them to continue. Um, and then that's how they became successful. So, you know, Michael Jordan has a famous quote where he talks about how many times he's missed the winning game shot, how many times he's missed games that, you know, were dependent upon him to win, etc., etc. And then at the end of the quote, it basically says he's failed over and over and over again in his life, and that is why he succeeds. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and so any successful person, like I said, whether it be a business owner, entrepreneur, Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban can talk to you about how he's failed and and grew up and and and failed in several businesses before he became successful. So, Microsoft, look at Bill Gates. I mean, the Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: list goes on and on and on. Tracie Edwards: So now that you have owned multiple businesses uh over the last many years, uh is there a particular lesson that you wish you had learned earlier? 00:09:21 Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. And that lesson is I wish I were um more aware of all the many many many opportunities that are out there for funding. Um I went the traditional way which is going to the bank, getting a bank loan. Um and in my book I refer to the bank as the devil. Um you know dancing with the devil. And I I say that um because I I wouldn't be here without the devil. But at Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: the same time when you when you dance with the devil meaning the bank um you have to follow their restrictions their guidelines their rules um and you know they make it very challenging for you and they really grab a hold of you. So Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: if there's one thing that I would tell people or I would do differently is before I started my business I would make sure I had a year and a half capital in the bank. That's one thing I did not have. All my uh resources went to a deposit. 00:10:08 Kelvin Abrams: Um, at Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that point I had an 8020 loan from the SBA and I had to come to the table with 20% down. So all of my savings went into my um deposit for the bank for that 8020 SBA loan. Um, but what I I would recommend people is that if you're going to start your business is there's a whole bunch of grants that are out there. There's um apprenticeship opportunities that are out there. So I would look at those resources first before going the traditional route with the bank. And worst Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: case scenario, if you do have to go to the bank, then what I would highly recommend is making sure when you sit down with that banker, you sit down with the business attorney and your CPA and allow them to negotiate for you because the banks are there to win. Make no mistake about that. The banks are there to win and get their money Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: back. So, you need to make sure you have people on your side that's protecting your interest. 00:10:59 Tracie Edwards: Yeah, I'm a big uh firm believer in uh in sort of the preparation side of things that uh I always need to be preparing so that when the time comes, when the time is right that I do need to make that move, I uh sort of have my my ducks in a row so that I I feel better about making the move. And the sounds like that's what you're advocating there. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. But the thing is is you're never really ever going to be comfortable. Um and that's why I say label my book get uncomfortable is because Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: you I've been self-employed, thank the Lord, for 17 years now. Um, and still, you know, as seasoned, as seasoned as I may be, you know, every day there's a new fear. You know, there's a new reality. I mean, when you sit Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: back realize that you have people that depend on a paycheck from you. You know, you have people that look forward to getting their paycheck and your responsibility to them is to make sure that they can pay their bills. 00:11:59 Kelvin Abrams: Um, and there are a lot of times that as a business owner, you have to go without. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and that's where I talk about in my book as well is all the sacrificing that you have to take. So that's where again the work get uncomfortable really resonates with a business owner or an entrepreneur because that's what it's all about is getting uncomfortable and sometimes staying uncomfortable for quite some time. Tracie Edwards: Right. So maybe what would be a like a common myth about in entrepreneurship um that uh you you feel like maybe keeps people from going into entrepreneurship that that might actually have a have a good reason to do so? Kelvin Abrams: Oh, that's a funny question. So, the common myth I think that people have about entrepreneurs is that uh you can take a vacation whenever you want. Um you can not show up whenever you want. Um you know, you're the boss, so you can punch in and punch out whenever you want. Right? So, that's Tracie Edwards: Mhm. 00:12:55 Kelvin Abrams: the myth that everyone has about being an entrepreneur. But what I like to tell people is I actually work for my employees because if your employees weren't there, you would not be a boss. So to Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: have the mentality of, oh, you know, I'm the boss, I can do whatever I want. You're completely wrong. You're setting yourself up for failure because without your employees, you're not a boss. Um, Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: and then the second part of that is is the common myth that prevents people from doing it is fear. Um, and Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: it's really not a myth. It's just reality is fear. Fear prevents people from doing a lot of things, you know, and it goes back to what I said before is I think entrepreneurs are born. Uh because entrepreneurs, in my personal humble opinion, is entrepreneurs, we think, we strategically think about what we're going to do, but then we jump off the cliff. We don't look for a parachute. 00:13:42 Kelvin Abrams: We don't look for um a net at the end of the um the jump. We just jump. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: We know we're going to figure it out on the way down. We're going to grow our wings and we're going to figure it out on the way down. So that's a true entrepreneur. So that's what stops people is the fear. Tracie Edwards: Right. Right. And I think you have to have the mindset of um one way or another this is going to work out and uh if it works out better awesome if it doesn't uh it's a learning learning opportunity. So as as you have faced some of those setbacks in your entrepreneurial journey, um how did you really stay focused and and continue believing in what you were doing so that you could keep building even when times were were um not as good? Kelvin Abrams: that that's a daily daily daily challenge even 17 years into it's a daily challenge. Um, and to answer the question is, um, in my book I refer to something called the boardroom. 00:14:44 Kelvin Abrams: And the boardroom is when sometimes when it's really hard and tough, you know, I may sit and look out the window and kind of just meditate looking out the window and just take my mind somewhere else. Um, going to the boardroom, I may do something like sit outside and have a cigar in the middle of the day, something like that to kind of take me away and to do a reset. Um, another reset for me is there are times when I'll listen to music. You know, music is very inspirational to me. Sometimes I'll listen to gospel music. Sometimes I'll just listen to upbeat music just to kind of change the focus and change where I'm at. Um, and you know, other things I'll do um is basically pray. I mean, I'll pray to God Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and you know, I'll read books. I read motivational books. Um, you know, and I read books that, um, people have gone through challenges in their life and they've succeeded. So, one book I really love I loved reading and I continue to read here and there is by David Gogggins and it's called You Can't Hurt Me. 00:15:39 Kelvin Abrams: Um, and in that book, David Gogggins talks about all the many struggles he had growing up as a child from his dad being abusive, being an alcoholic, cheating on his mother, and then him failing as a Navy Seal twice before he actually succeeded being a Navy Seal. Um, and so yeah, I just love books like that that um very inspirational and motivating and that that's kind of how I get through the tough days. But make no mistake about it, tough days happen even 17 years in Tracie Edwards: Right. I think that's a great point. Um, I know how easy it can be to um get me going down a a rabbit hole of wo is me kind of thing. And uh it's so important for me to meditate, pray, exercise, do the things that I that I know are going to keep me in that positive mental space so that I can uh keep going during those more fearful times. So, Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. And then the other thing is that's been very very very helpful for me. 00:16:45 Kelvin Abrams: Um and again I I I hate keeping referring back to my book, but I if you refer back to my book is I always tell people get a mentor. You know, get Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: a mentor, get somebody who's been there. And you know, I have a really great mentor now who's more of a friend, but Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: um you know, I tell people you don't want mentors that are your family or your friends or or significant others is because they're going to tell you things to help protect you because that's their job is to protect you. They don't want to see you struggle. They don't want to see Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: hear about the hard things, right? Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: Instead, you want to get a mentor that has been there. You want to get a mentor that has walked in your shoes. You want to get a mentor that has failed several times and continued with their resilience and tenacity and continue and became su become successful. And so the mentor I have right now is about 75 years old and still he's still grinding to this day with his own business. 00:17:37 Kelvin Abrams: He's a self-made man. At one point in time he almost filed bankruptcy but then one of his businesses came to fruition and he sold it to Gillette. made a lot of money off of that and and the story lives till this day. He's 75 years old, works 40, 50 hours a week, and he's still hustling to this day. Um, and so when I when there are days when I when I'm in the boardroom, I call him up and him and he talks me off the ledge. I mean, there are many, many, many days where I'm on the ledge and he talks me down by simply saying, you know, hey, Kelvin, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. And that's what you need is you need a mentor to say, hey, I've been there. You're exactly where you're supposed to be. Stay the course. Tracie Edwards: love that. Um I know that mentorship has been incredibly important for me as well. I want to touch on just for a minute. There's um there's sort of the personal fear of of um personal failure. 00:18:34 Tracie Edwards: Um, but as a business owner and um a multi- business owner, I'm sure there's some public scrutiny that that comes with that as well. And so um it it's sort of probably a next level fear if you if you're thinking about um the other folks that are involved in that kind of thing. Kelvin Abrams: Yeah, the next level fear for me is um you know the backlash with having many businesses you know it's like you're looked upon as being um you know uh too successful if you will um and it's like people just kind of look at you from the outside not really knowing what it took to get there. Um, and the businesses I have all really came about from an opportunity. Um, and I always say to people when I do um, speaking engagements is that, you know, opportunity when it presents itself, whether you're ready or not, you're going to have to take advantage of it just because it may not come again. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and I have a really, really good friend of mine who always likes to say, "Opportunity comes in this ugly brown cardboard box that has masking tape on it, holes in it, and all of that stuff, right? But 00:19:43 Kelvin Abrams: then when you take advantage of an opportunity, that's when you make it into that nice pretty little green teal Tiffany box with that white uh bow on it. But you know, make no mistake about it. All opportunities when they come to you, they're going to be ugly. And it's what you make of it that um determines your success. Tracie Edwards: So true. So tell me about the the mantra for learn, earn, return. How did that uh really come about for you and how did that that shape some of your um career decisions? Kelvin Abrams: Um many many many years ago I remember talking to a good friend of mine and we were talking about um you know learning and earning and things like that. Um, and so I kind of came up with the mantra learn, earn, return. Um, just because, you know, it it's growing up we had a challenging, you know, we were lower middle class, but you know, there were some challenging times. And in college, I faced a lot of challenging times financially, having to work three and four jobs and all of that stuff. 00:20:41 Kelvin Abrams: And um, I knew when I was age 18 that I was going to write a book. I just didn't know what the book was going to be about because I knew there was something inside of me that I had to share and I wanted to share with other people to make sure they didn't go down the same hole that I went down. Um, and so learn, earn, return. Where that comes from is, you know, I I I I've learned, I'm continuing to earn, and there's a point in my life where I want to give back, and that's the return portion of it. Um, and so the return portion of it for me is when I during the pandemic I it came clear to me what I wanted to write about and that was the struggle because Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: there are a lot of self-help books. I'm sure you've read self-help books before. Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: Um, and you know there are self-help books that go out there and they tell you all the good about being an entrepreneur and they 00:21:25 Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: tell you stay the course, make sure you do this and that. But you know there are no books out there that I'm aware of um that well I should say very few books that actually tell you the ugly part about being an entrepreneur and that's where I come along where I talk about get uncomfortable is I tell you the ugly parts about it which is you know the sacrifice the missed vacations you know the missed family events the missed funerals the miss weddings you know all of these things the ugly side of it you know the financial burden of it you know and and that's where the learn return comes comes from is because I really want to give back and I want to make sure if someone decides they want to walk down this road calling themsel a business owner or an entrepreneur. It's more than just handing out a business card saying I'm a business owner. It's a hell of a lot more than that. And you know that's where I want to give back to people and make sure they have you know all the knowledge that I can possibly give them um to move forward and make the right choices. 00:22:22 Kelvin Abrams: And that's really what the return is about is making sure someone doesn't walk down the same road I did and make the same mistakes that I did and give someone a leg up. Tracie Edwards: That whole concept of giving back is is so important. I'm a firm believer in um if you want to call it karma or or what goes around comes around Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. Tracie Edwards: kind of thing. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. Tracie Edwards: So, um, so important to to just make sure that our motives are pure and in the right place, um, if we're going to keep sort of going forward down this path. Kelvin Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, for me, it's also a feel-good thing. You know, you feel good, you know, and that feel-good thing, you know, like like you mentioned, you know, you you know, it'll come back to you tenfold. Um, and you know, I'm not looking for a return on my investment, but I'm I'm looking for just to help someone else. and if that person can pay it forward and help someone else um 00:23:19 Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that's how you would succeed you know so I mean again growing up I had my challenges towards the end of my um high school years was very financially challenging for our family uh because my father decided to start his own business um and you know became very financially challenging so we had to go without a Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: lot of things you know there are times when our light was turned off the um the time when the oil ran out the furnace and we would be in Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: the house in the cold you know so the phone would get cut off, things like that. So, I mean, we we suffered towards the end, you know, and that's also what kind of made me the person that I am today, the resilience, and also made me the person that I am today in a sense of I'm used to being uncomfortable. I mean, try Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: sleeping in the cold when you're in high school, you know, in a room underneath all these blankets and waking up and taking a cold shower to go to uh high school, you know. 00:24:08 Kelvin Abrams: So, you know, I've been uncomfortable my entire life. Um, and like I said, more so the last couple of years in high school. So, you know, it it's just something that, you know, I'm used to and I'm not afraid of failure. Tracie Edwards: And and really what you're talking about there is is vulnerability, right? Um, you know, getting comfortable with being uncomfortable means getting comfortable with some vulnerability. Uh, to know that, uh, maybe we're not quite so tough as we think and that's okay. And and, uh, yeah. Um, Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. Um I I love to tell this you know scenario. I give it in my book as well too. Um is you know everybody knows Mike Tyson the youngest champion of the world. Um you know made all this money etc etc. Um and then along came this gentleman named Buster Douglas Jr. um and he had nothing to lose. absolutely nothing to lose. Um, he just went into that ring, he lost his mother, he went into that ring with God behind him and he just went in that to that ring with no fear. 00:25:17 Kelvin Abrams: No fear in the world. Um, and Mike Tyson went into the ring comfortable. And that's where get uncomfortable is important because Mike Tyson was very, very comfortable. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: Buster Douglas on the other hand was willing to do whatever it took to be Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: uncomfortable and that's why he won that fight that day. So I always ask people who do you want to be Mike Tyson or Buster Douglas? And that determines whether you uh you know get uncomfortable or whether you change course because it may not be for Tracie Edwards: Well, and I think it's a little cyclical, right? So maybe we start out uncomfortable and uh you know using Mike Tyson as an example, he was he was hungry and he was um ready and that kind of thing, but over time he he kept winning and and that probably did make him sort of uh feel invincible sort of thing. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. And from that, uh, Dr. Edwards, from that, I've had several clients of mine throughout the years that have had multiple businesses. 00:26:25 Kelvin Abrams: And one in particular, I remember this gentleman, um, older gentleman, probably about 65 years old, had here in Maryland, he owned 45 Pizza Huts in the state of Maryland here. 45 Pizza Huts. And one thing he and other clients have told me that were very successful, and these are millionaires, that every couple of years, every two or three years, you need to reinvent yourself. And that prevents you from getting comfortable. So if Mike Tyson, for example, reinvented himself every three years, um he he would not have been comfortable. Uh look at Tiger Woods, for example. Tiger Woods has won so many different championships and awards Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: out there Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: because every year or every couple of years, he changes his swing. He changes something about his game. And that's why he does not get comfortable. And then especially after his 12 back surgeries that he's had, you know, he's able to continue to play is because he continues to adapt. Um, and then, you know, one of the really good books I've had that I read when I was in college is Who Moved Your Cheese? 00:27:30 Kelvin Abrams: by I believe Dr. dispenser and it talks about these two different mice, you know, where one set of mice were comfortable and then the other set of mice went about and found more cheese and the other people that were comfortable sat back and eventually that cheese ran out and then the two mice that went ahead and forged forward had plenty of cheese, you know. So, I'm sure you've heard the old saying, you know, my dad used to say it all the time is you can teach a man how to fish and feed him for a day or you can can can I'm sorry, you can teach a man how to fish and he can feed himself for a lifetime or you can give the man a fish and feed him for a day. And it really is the person you want to be, which goes back to get uncomfortable or change course. Tracie Edwards: Right. Um, and thank you for bringing up Who Moved My Cheese? That's a that's a business classic from from years ago that I recall um reading uh early in my corporate career. 00:28:24 Tracie Edwards: So, Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. Tracie Edwards: it's a it's a classic. So, Kelvin Abrams: Very very Tracie Edwards: um Kelvin Abrams: good book. Tracie Edwards: so if someone listening is is maybe stuck, they're um they're afraid to start, they're unsure of their next move, they're um there's maybe some volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity going on for them. What's a piece of advice that you would give them? Kelvin Abrams: I would say take advantage of free uh places that can help you and provide advice and and strong support for your ideal concept, product or whatever it may be. An example would be this small business small business administration has an organization called SCORE. S c o r e score. SC score is made up of business professionals that have been in the industry and they're made up of volunteers that want to help you and help people. And in fact, I went to SCORE for about a year and a half and and helped them. They helped me redefine my business plan over and over and over again. So much so when I went to the very first banker that I interviewed, she uh gave me the loan and in addition to that gave me an additional $250,000 because she had believed in me, believed in my process because I had did the work. 00:29:44 Kelvin Abrams: Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and that's what I talk about as well in my book is do the work. You know, don't be afraid of doing the work. Um, and if you do the work and if you have other people check you, you know, it's all about checks and balances. So if you have other people check your work and you do the best that you can do, then the only thing left to do is jump. Go ahead and jump because you have to be secure in knowing that you Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: did the best you could do. Um and then at that point you just jump Tracie Edwards: Well, so let's maybe talk about that for a minute because um there's the discomfort that could mean it's time to grow or there's the discomfort that means that it's it's time to reset, pivot, whatever. How do you sort of distinguish between those two? Kelvin Abrams: So, um, being discomfort, you know, is if you're discomfortable, um, and you've done the best that you can do, then that's where you sit back and you say, "Hey, how do I reset?" 00:30:40 Kelvin Abrams: And that's where maybe the every two to three years reinvent yourself, you know, do a reset. That's when you rely on your mentor. That's when you get a business mentor, someone who's been there before with you, and that's when you seek advice and seek help. Um, but if you're just dis if you're just discomfortable because of the fact that you didn't do the work, then there's nothing else that you can do other than expect to fail. Um, and Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that's what happens when if you don't do the work and invest in yourself, why should the bank, why should anyone else invest in you? So, you always have to invest in yourself first because if you don't believe in yourself, why would a bank or somebody give you money or why would a business mentor want to work with you if you don't believe in yourself? If you have any doubt in yourself, no one's going to want to work with you. So, you have to Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: make sure you being dis, you know, you being uncomfortable is a good thing. 00:31:29 Kelvin Abrams: And if you don't welcome it as a good thing and see it as success and see it as learning and growing, then you you don't have any place in the world of being a business owner or an entrepreneur. Tracie Edwards: So true. Um let's pivot just a little bit. Um, so your businesses are really focused on bringing people together. Um, and maybe talk about was that intentional, especially, you know, having been in a pandemic and and that for several years and um people being less inclined to gather. Um, was that sort of an intentional thing on your part to make sure that you were kind of creating some gathering place and some community? Kelvin Abrams: No, it actually just fell into my lap. I mean, honestly, as um I first started out with my doggy daycare boarding facility called Tiki's Playhouse. Um and then uh a portion of that business um was my grooming facility where I had grooming. And unfortunately, I did not have good experience dealing with groomers. And after about eight or nine years, I decided to do something different with that side of the building. 00:32:42 Kelvin Abrams: And then that's where I came up with a concept called K9 and Coffee. And then I went ahead and trademarked the name K9 and Coffee. And then we started, you know, um, a coffee shop in the same building where my doggy daycare is. And Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: then we evolved during the pandemic, we evolved to doing a dog playground. This is where the socialization came about with the people in the area because you know we were locked down for three months and you know people were itching to get out. So at that point in time again another opportunity presented itself where I would open up my backyard and I would allow people to bring their dogs. I would serve coffee and then we would go ahead and socialize at that point. Um and another business of mine which is directly across the street from my current businesses is a gym. It's a 24-hour gym that again fell into my lap. Um, my landlord owns that property across the street. Again, I wasn't ready. 00:33:32 Kelvin Abrams: Never ever in my life thought I'd buy a gym or own a gym, but it presented itself. It was a great turnkey operation. It was making money. And so, I went for it. I got some investors initially that helped me put the deposit down. And eventually over the years, I paid them off. Um, and now, um, the gym is mine 100%. You know, so that's how these businesses came about. And that's why I tell everybody is opportunity comes knocking every day. You just have to be open for it and open to it. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: Um, again, you know, I have a coffee shop and quite frankly, I don't drink coffee. I've never drank coffee. I do like espresso. I mean, I Tracie Edwards: Uh-huh. Kelvin Abrams: will now drink espresso because I have a coffee shop. But, you know, the funny thing is is people are like, "Well, why did you start a coffee shop?" And I'm like, "Well, at the time, coffee was the number two traded commodity on the stock market." 00:34:16 Kelvin Abrams: You know, the first one was oil and the second Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: one was coffee. So, it's like, it's a no-brainer. If you're a business owner, if you're an entrepreneur, then you take advantage of where the money is going to be and where the opportunity is going to be. You don't do necessarily do something that you like. People don't buy necessarily what you like. People buy a product if it's a need. If they have a need for that product, just because I like something doesn't mean someone's going to buy it from it. Tracie Edwards: Well, and and so maybe talk a little bit about um how you knew it was it was time to go a different direction with the groomers. So I I think sometimes uh we kind of keep pushing and pushing and we've got the whole sunk cost thing happening with uh with ventures that we started and and stuff. How did you kind of know when it was time, you know, this isn't working out kind of thing and and pivoted. 00:35:10 Kelvin Abrams: Um, that's an easy one. You know, when you look at the bank account and you look at the money, um, you know, the groomers are, um, the ones I dealt with, I don't want to talk bad about groomers out there because not all groomers Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: are bad. Um, but Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: the ones I dealt with, you know, were very greedy in the sense of they wanted to do 5050 split. They wanted you to pay their payroll with a 50/50 split. They wanted you to pay the electricity, the telephone bill. They wanted you to pay for the building and all of that stuff that you're in. And they still wanted a 5050 split. And then Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: so after a while, I started looking at the numbers. My CPA and I started looking at the numbers and we were like, "This just doesn't make sense." Because, you know, 50-50 split when you're paying someone's taxes is more Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: or less like the groomer. 00:35:55 Kelvin Abrams: I'm working for the groomer because the groomer basically gets like 65% of that and then I'm stuck with the 35% plus the taxes on that. And so, you know, after a couple of years, my CPA and I, we're like, hey, if they don't want to rent the space from you and have some skin in the game, it's time to walk away. And quite frankly, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that's what happened is towards the end, I I approached Groomer and said, hey, you can rent my space. and once they figured out how much this space will cost and so forth, they walked away. Um, so it was a it was a easy transition for me once my CPA Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: sat the numbers down for me. Um, but you know, it took me a little bit. I'm not going to lie, it took me a couple of years for me to finally realize that it's not going to work. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: because primarily my my clients at Tiki's Playhouse were benefiting from it. 00:36:41 Kelvin Abrams: So, I kind of just let my clients benefit from it. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: but it got to a certain point where my CPA corrected me and was like, "Hey, we need to make a pivot." And that's what happened is I made that pivot. Tracie Edwards: Well, and that that's a great point. You needed to know the numbers, but you also needed to have someone who was willing to be honest with you. Um, and it goes back to your whole point about finding a mentor that uh is willing to be honest with you and really tell you the truth about where you are and what you can do. Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. You know, and I've gone through three CPAs since I've started my business, and I'm so thankful I got this one here that I have. I've Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: had her here probably for the last eight years, and she's just wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. Um, but yeah, you know, I think um I I you know, early on I had friends tell me um, "Hey man, you can do the bookkeeping yourself. Hey 00:37:36 Kelvin Abrams: man, you don't need to hire a CPA. I can help you out. Hey man, you don't need to do marketing. I can help you out with marketing. Right? But Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: my belief from the very very very very beginning um and I think that's what has allowed me to succeed because over the years I've heard horror stories about other people. But my belief from the very very beginning is I'm not going to take the arrogant mentality of I can do it all. No, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: I would rather pay a marketing specialist for their specialty. They went to school for that. This is Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: what they do. I'd rather Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: pay a bookkeeper $50 an hour because that's what they do. They do it all day long. I would rather pay people to do things for me that that's their specialty versus me trying to save a dollar. Because at the end of the day, you're really not saving a dollar. 00:38:22 Kelvin Abrams: You're costing yourself hundreds of dollars if not thousands of dollars because you're trying to be cheap on the front end. And this is what goes back to what I said a little few minutes ago is if you don't invest in yourself, why should someone else invest in you? And therefore, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: you need to invest in the best people because the best people that you're going to have around you are those who are not family and friends in my humble opinion. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: Those that are going to be honest with you, straightforward with you, and those that are going to put their name tag on you. Because you do Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: have to remember when you get these professionals, they're hitching their wagon to you. Which means if you fail, they fail. Which means if they if people know that they work for you or work with you, then they're going to get a bad reputation. So you got to put that in in perspective as well, too. Tracie Edwards: Great point. 00:39:11 Tracie Edwards: So, um, you know, looking back over the last couple of decades, um, what's something that you may have sacrificed for your business that in the end maybe wasn't worth it? Kelvin Abrams: Oh boy, this is really personal because just recently, probably a month ago, I lost um one of my favorite uncles. Um and because of work, unfortunately, you know, the economy now is really bad. Um Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: so I really and employees have changed since the pandemic. I mean, you just can't find reliable people. Um, and so I I had to miss his funeral, which, you know, really hurt me. And then, you know, a couple of years ago, I lost one of my favorite cousins. Um, and I was unable to make his funeral. Um, and so I would say over the 17 years, I've missed about four or five family funerals that really hurt. Um and you know it's sometimes you have to make the tough decision um to stay the course and family and friends are going to have to understand um that you know you have people's lives that are depending on you and this 00:40:18 Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: is where I' I'd say that you have to sacrifice you know and the these are times when you have to really sacrifice because you know if I if I left and went away for a couple of weeks or went away for two days and shut down my businesses because I couldn't find help then Now, that's two or three days that my employees go without a paycheck. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: Um, and you know, I don't have the ability to pay someone from not working. You know, I you know, you have to work if you want to get paid from me. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: so over the years, that's the thing I would miss. And then also recently about two weeks ago I missed a wedding of a really really close friend that I've known 45 something years his daughter you know and that was hard for me to miss because you know you miss hanging out with the people you grew up with for 45 Tracie Edwards: Right. Kelvin Abrams: 50 years and you miss their children's wedding and that was 00:41:05 Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: a tough pill to swallow as well too. So yeah, it it's the sacrifice that you ultimately have to make and Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and and decide if this is really what you want to do. And and it's a it's a road less traveled is um you know, I've heard this all my life is that being an entrepreneur is a road less traveled Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: for a reason. Tracie Edwards: Right. Yeah. So, I I come back to this quite a lot. The the whole concept of tradeoffs um there there are obviously going to be tradeoffs with um entrepreneurship uh with do you have time for this versus this? Um do you have money for this versus this? And uh I just always kind of keep coming back to there are different tradeoffs for different decisions that we make and and maybe somebody else wouldn't make the same decision as me, but they may have a benefit because of that tradeoff um you know down the line. So I I think it goes back to what is it that you value? 00:42:13 Tracie Edwards: What is it uh what does integrity mean for you? and that kind of thing. Kelvin Abrams: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it's it's very challenging for me because, you know, it's just me, you know, it's just me that owns all three of these businesses. I don't have a partner. Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: and before the pandemic, um, things were a lot easier on me and I would have been able to make these funerals and I would have been able to make, um, this wedding here, um, two weeks ago. But after the pandemic, you know, I always tell people that, you know, before the pandemic, I didn't just start all three businesses all at once. No, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: one business, Tiki's Playhouse, was successful for eight, nine, 10 years. Then we merged into a coffee shop that was successful for you know six, seven years. Then I purchased a gym when the opportunity came about it and that was successful for eight years. And then here came this pandemic in 2020 and literally shut down all three of my businesses temporarily and basically once the pandemic lifted, I was faced with trying to start three businesses again from the ground up at once. 00:43:21 Kelvin Abrams: And Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: that's where life for me for the last four or five years has been extremely challenging and extremely difficult because on top of starting three businesses after the pandemic now the world has changed their spending habits, their their eating habits, their Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: drive-thru habits. Um the employees now no longer want to work. They all want to do Uber Eats and GrubHub and all this quick fast money thinking that they're entrepreneurs, not realizing that they're 1099 employees and that they're not putting any money away for their retirement 401k or anything like that. Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: But the world has changed and so yes, you know, there is a tradeoff and for me unfortunately after the pandemic, that trade-off, you know, has hit me really hard. Um, but you know, it's one of these things where I have to stay the course. I have to get all three businesses back up and running before the pandemic time. Um, and then look forward to the future. So, that's why I say entrepreneurs, we figure it out on the way down. 00:44:23 Kelvin Abrams: So, you know, I didn't expect the pandemic to happen. It did. So, okay, I'm not going to sit and cry about it and say, "Woe is me." Um, Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: you know, I took on extra debt like a lot of other businesses. You know, I got a PPP loan, which was forgiven, but then I got an EIDL loan or they call it an idol loan, emergency something disaster loan. So now I'm $200,000 in debt with my EIDL loan. Yes, it's over a 30-year period at a 3.75% interest. But this is debt that I didn't have, but now that Tracie Edwards: Mhm. Kelvin Abrams: I have, but that again is, you know, a tradeoff for me saying, "Hey, I'm going to make this work. And if I have to take on this additional debt, then I'm going to take additional debt on and just add it to the challenges of my day-to-day life or businesses. Just another challenge. Tracie Edwards: I like I like that approach that it's just another challenge and we'll we'll figure it out. 00:45:17 Tracie Edwards: Um Kelvin Abrams: Absolutely. Tracie Edwards: so so as we wrap up today, uh any any parting words that you'd like to share with our audience? Kelvin Abrams: I would just say if it's in your heart that you want to be an entrepreneur or if it's in your heart that you really really want to change that career, then do the work. Simply, simply put, just do the work. Find somebody to help you. Find a mentor. Go to SCORE, go to free places that you can get free help. I mean, there are a lot of economic development centers in your community that are there to help you. Go to your chamber of commerce, you know, go to your state. There's a state your uh every state has a labor board or department of labor in every state. Go there. There are a lot of programs there. There's summer programs. There's apprenticeship programs. You know, there's grant money that's out there depending on your business that the state will give you money that you don't have to pay back. So I would say do the work. Um and then you know go ahead and just jump. Tracie Edwards: Well, on that note, uh that's a that's a great note to end on. Um you know, do the work and and go ahead and jump and and uh things will work out. So, uh, thank you so much, Kelvin Abrams. Such a delight to talk with you today. Again, the book is Get Uncomfortable or Change Course. So, thank you so much for your time today. Kelvin Abrams: Thank you very much for having me. Tracie Edwards: And for our listeners, uh, your call to action today is to go to Apple or Spotify, uh, and leave us a review. We'd love to know uh what you think of the show and and uh um what you'd like to to see from us down the road. So, on that note, thank you all so much. Figure out how to stop this recording. There we go.